Swing-Keel Line

[Wind Chime]

Is the cable for the "Swing-Keel" retrieving/deploying line, supposed to be attached to the keel on the 2000 , or is it just threaded through the hole with a stopper on the end?


While on a two day fishing/sailing trip this weekend I went to pull the swing-keel up and the line had separated from the cable, and the cable disappeared down the compression hole.

Our line was a combination of steel wire from the keel up the compression post then spliced to rope that went to the cam-cleat on the starboard side of the deck. (Factory install by BWY). When the keel was in the full up position, there was about one foot of cable showing at the top of the compression post.

I tried to fish for the line with a treble hook down the compression post but the post appeared to be empty. Assuming the cable had fallen out of the compression post and was now hanging below the boat still attached to the keel, I tried fishing for the cable by running a line with a weight around the boat, then tried the boat hook, etc, but could not hook the cable or see it.

The last resort was to go swimming, and here in the Pacific Northwest the water temperature is not a day on the beach ... brrrrrrr, especially since we were eight miles in the middle of the Georgia Straight in 425 feet of water. But over the side I went.

I was shocked when I found there was no cable attached to the keel. The hole was empty, the cable was gone, with no sign that it was ever attached to the keel.

I managed to put and emergency lift-line in place by running a sinking anchor line down the compression post from the deck and pull it out through the bottom of the hull, then thread it through the hole in the keel, and tie a stopper knot in the end. Similar to how the rudders lines are attached.

The only thing I can think happened, is that when the deck line split from the cable the weight of the cable forced itself down the compression post, and with no tension on the cable and not attached to the keel, just unthreatened itself through the hole in the keel, and fell away.

Surely this cable is attached to the keel. How is the cable supposed to be attached? I looked at the schematics in the manual and it does not have a good outline of this attachment. Anyone have a photo?

Many thanks,
Darry

[Rich Plumb]

Hi Darry!

I had a 2000 26X with an all rope centerboard line. It came apart while on a trip to Everett, one year. I normally launched the boat using the slings at Des Moines, (don't know if they are still available) so I just motored back there and we lifted the boat out of the water. I had to get under it and pass a line under the centerboard, from one side to the other, to hold the centerboard up long enough to get the boat back on the trailer. Once back home and on the trailer, I was able to drop the centerboard out and install a new line (from BWY). In my case, the centerboard is attached by passing the line through the hole in the centerboard, from one side and then you make a figure eight in the end of the line to keep it from coming out. What caused the original line to break, was that the hole in the fiberglass at the bottom of the compression post had rough, sharp edges in the fiberglass, and it chaffed and finally cut the line. Before installing the new one, I took a drill motor, with a long extension and used a cone shaped grinding stone bit to smooth that fiberglass where the rope exits out the bottom of the boat.

Good luck

~~~~~~~~~~~_/)~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rich Plumb, Covington WA
S/V Chieftain, Morgan 462

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

Early X's had the wire / rope combo, later ones went to all rope. No doubt to save a couple bucks on the factories part.

Mine is the wire / rope combo and I must say I prefer this as it can handle a lot more chafe at the bottom exit point than a plain line. I carry a spare but have never needed it.

Both route the same way. Tied with a figure 8 or bolted to the centerboard. Make sure the knot or bolt doesn't jam in the trunk. From there up inside the compression post, over the metal finger attached to the mast step and to the starboard turning block just ahead of the jib track. If you have wire usually after the turning block there is a transition to line that is just a bowline tied in the eye installed on the wire. Then back to the cam cleat.

I assume your boat is in a slip and the keel has just been in the full down position all the time if it was never attached. Did the line stop hard when you pulled on it to raise the centerboard? Like wise you should have been able to un-cleat it and the weight of the centerboard would pull it down. You also will hear a 'Klunk' when the centerboard is fully deployed.

As long as you never go faster than 7 knots under power having the centerboard full down all the time is not a problem, it's actually the preferred way to operate the boat. Above that speed you need it up as it generates lift to the side that can surprise you and start the boat to roll in weird ways.

Of course if you ever put the boat on the trailer you need the centerboard full up. It's possible to load it with it down, the board will just pivot back as it hits the ground at the ramp and then the trailer cross beams. Likely you will loose some gel coat on the leading edge of the board however. Once on the trailer it should be just out a bit sitting on the cross beam.

Be careful of this however, on some X trailers when the boat was fully forward the board can drop down in front of a the cross beam. We had one boat that took part in the San Juan Rendezvous I coordinated a few years back that had this problem. Along the road to the launch their line slipped out of the cleat and the board dropped. It became jammed against the trailer cross beam and the boat stuck on the trailer like a fish on a barbed hook. It took quite a number of launch attempts to get it loose. We ended up removing the bow rubber block then doing a mac bump to get the boat further forward so we could lift the board back up.

When I got my boat I was advised by BWY not to rely on the cleat alone to hold the board up when on the trailer.

By the way, technically, our boats don't have a swing keel. That implies a weighted structure like the cast iron swing keels on the early MacGregors and Ventures. The later boats, 26' classics, X's, and M's have un-weighted centerboards and daggerboards. Weight for righting comes from the water ballast instead.

[Wind Chime]

I assume your boat is in a slip and the keel has just been in the full down position all the time if it was never attached.

No slip. We keep it fully rigged on the trailer in the dry storage compound at the marina.

Did the line stop hard when you pulled on it to raise the centerboard? Like wise you should have been able to un-cleat it and the weight of the centerboard would pull it down. You also will hear a 'Klunk' when the centerboard is fully deployed.

No the line did not stop hard when I pulled it up. The line was totally slack. I knew right away that the line had broken.

I know the "klunk" you speak of. I use this noise to confirm that the board is up or down, and I also know the length of line from the cam-cleat to the bitter-end, when the keel is up or down.

I always sleep with the keel up to avoid the sideways banging sound. I deploy the keel and rudders to maneuver in the marina and then pull all three up to motor.

When I pulled the keel up to leave the marina it was fine, normal tension and cam-cleated it off. When I deployed the keel after the motor I released the cam cleat and watched the line go out and heard the klunk when it was deployed. When to pull it up and the line was slack. it must have been on it's last thread when I deployed it.


My big surprise was to find out that the cable was not attached to the keel, just threaded through the hole with some sort of stopper in the bitter end.

I checked at BWY website and they do not sell the cable/rope combo. Just all rope. I would prefer the cable for chaff issues.

[Wind Chime]

- What side of the keel does the stopper knot go on, Port or Starboard?

I noticed there is a notch on the port side of the keel, at the hole where the line attaches.
- What is this notch for ?

Since BWY does not make the cable-rope combo anymore (only all-rope), I would like to make one myself to repalce the one that broke. And as the cable section fell free and is now at the bottom of the ocean, it is unavailable for inspection.

- How long is the cable section ?
- How does it attch to the keel ?

Duanne,
Do you have a photo of your spare one?

[opie]

Simple overhand knot will do if you are using very low stretch line. The groove in the CB is for the knot to be able to swing up without hitting the sides. A figure eight knot might be too big if you are using large line. I used Spectra, 1 size up from halyard size.

As for the length, eyeball it and add plenty of spare and cut off what you don't want. Unless you are a normal person and then you can measure the whole setup with string and weights and tape and calculator.

[Wind Chime]

Thanks for the photo opie!

I looks like the groove on your keel is on the Starboard side in the photo. If I recall correctly, I think ours is on the Port side. (but I was underwater with no goggles when I was working on ours)

Was your photo possibly reversed, or is yours actualy on the starboard side?

[opie]

The picture is not reversed. But it will play tricks on your mind unless you know that I took the pic while the CB was dropped from the trailer. See below (taken from the starboard side - without the groove) and you will see that the groove is on the other (port) side just like you thought.

[Wind Chime]

Ahhhhh ... now it makes sense.
Thanks again!

[Rick Westlake]

Since BWY does not make the cable-rope combo anymore (only all-rope), I would like to make one myself to repalce the one that broke. And as the cable section fell free and is now at the bottom of the ocean, it is unavailable for inspection.

- How long is the cable section ?
- How does it attch to the keel ?

Properly speaking, it's about 12 feet long - maybe longer - and made of 5/32" 7x19 stainless-steel cable.
I replaced mine with an over-length cable - see my story here:
http://www.macgregorsailors.com/forum/v ... 83#p159559

It attaches - at least, I attached it - with a "Nicopress" eye in the lower end, fastened with a 1/4" bolt through the centerboard. I swaged the eye after I'd dropped the cable end through the compression post, because I doubted if the eye would fit down the post. (You can buy the Nicopress tool at West Marine, but ... West Marine prices....)

Rope would be easier, and cheaper; and more practical if your boat lives in the water. I remember seeing something - maybe in the Mods - on how someone epoxied a smooth plastic fairlead eye into their centerboard trunk, to keep the centerboard line from being abraded down there; I wasn't comfortable with the steel "finger" fairlead at the mast tabernacle, so that's why I replaced mine with cable. I don't regret the extra work, not in the least.

[Kelly Hanson East]

I had a thought on this this morning -

If you know your line is getting frayed or is old, it would be a cinch to replace it on trailer BEFORE IT BREAKS by...





Dropping board to ground, cutting off knot, taping new line to the old line butted on, and then pulling the new line (guiding it through the hole carefully) up through the compression post. Once you get length right up on top, tie a new knot at the board.....sounds like a 10 minute job this way..

what am i missing......

[Rick Westlake]

I had a thought on this this morning -

If you know your line is getting frayed or is old, it would be a cinch to replace it on trailer BEFORE IT BREAKS by...





Dropping board to ground, cutting off knot, taping new line to the old line butted on, and then pulling the new line (guiding it through the hole carefully) up through the compression post. Once you get length right up on top, tie a new knot at the board.....sounds like a 10 minute job this way..

what am i missing......

I'd just add one tiny refinement: Run the new line from the top down. Let gravity help you here.

(But I'm still glad I replaced mine with stainless-steel cable.)

[mackatt68]

(But I'm still glad I replaced mine with stainless-steel cable.)
Somewhere between 1999 and 2000, the factory switched from SS cable to line citing it as an improvement on the X. I've been very satisfied with having cable on my 98x BTW, not to be a pedantic, but it's a centerboard, not a swing keel. on an X

[DaveB]

Rick, I replaced mine with low streach braded 5/16 line that was 17 ft. long. I had a small eye splice put in from a rigger and added a flathead stainless bolt with a large washer.
This alowed the coutersink flathead to be flush with the otherside of centerboard and the spliced line with thru bolt attached to the recessed area of the centerboard. This allows no line or fittings rubbing against the sides of trunk.
Previous was 7x19 wire that caused major groves in centerboard trunk from fittings.
Going with a all 5/16 braided line causes to much friction on the 90 degree turn at the mast and needs a roller for less friction and wear on the line, this will also allow much less effort in raiseing the centerboard.
Dave

[Wind Chime]

... not to be a pedantic, but it's a centerboard, not a swing keel. on an X

I stand corrected.
From now on I will refer to the Swing-Keel on our as the Centerboard,
as it is clearly described in my manual on page 17-18. Thanks for making me find the manual, dust it off, and read it again

So with that said ... is the a Centerboard or a Daggerboard