Stability??

[mika]

When they release the masthead from the surface of the water, and the boat immediately and forcefully rights itself to vertical, it is an impressive feature in the MacGregor M sales video. Leads one to believe that – with a full ballast tank – the vessel would never roll onto its side and take water.

In fact, everything ever written about sailboats assert that a monohull sailboat is never more stable than when it is healing, since that’s when the weighted keel is highest in the water and at that point it exerts the most downward pressure to keep the vessel upright and vertical.

We’ve been sailing on Lake Charlevoix in Northern MI, a large lake with excellent wind for sailing. But it also has its share of large powerboats all of which put out huge wave rollers from their wakes. These keep us vigorously rocking from side to side, which frightens my crew. This takes me to my question.

Have any of you ever been swamped or laid on your side by rollers striking from abeam?
Is this something we need to worry about? If so, what’s the solution, if any?

(Yes, of course, I often try to strike these waves on the perpendicular, but can’t do that with all of them or I’d be constantly turning my boat off of its course and never getting anywhere. And yes, when under power, I often cut my speed to reduce the impact.)

What are your comments about this?

[Hardcrab]

Those waves will have less impact on your boat if you take them at a 45 degree angle rather than the 90 degrees you mentioned.

Roll or heel happens.

You and your crew just have to plow right on through it and learn firsthand that it takes quite a lot of either before a swamping condition occurs.

If you don't already have an incline-meter (about $15 or so from WM) mounted where everyone can see it, then consider doing so.
The objective reading you will get from it goes along way to accepting what that nerve racking, subjective
"felt "heel/roll seems like to the newbies.

Explain that even if the meter were to max out at a gut wrenching 45 degree reading of roll/heel, the boat is still well within it's capability. As you mentioned, you have seen the video at 90 degrees.

It worked for the admiral and grandchildren in our case.
I could see them tense up at the heel angle, they would shoot a look at the meter, see it at only 25 degrees and visibily relax.
They knew not sweat it at all unless the meter showed 45 degrees.

Ballast in and all boards down, and the boat will take care of you.

[mastreb]

I've been heeled over to the point that the rub rails were submerged. There's no danger to heeling in a Mac if properly ballasted. That said, the boat does not have infinite righting moment, so if something does cause it to go over beyond 120 degrees, it will turtle rather than rolling over and self-righting.

[Phil M]

I have never heard of a Mac turtling, and even if turtling did happen to a Mac somewhere somehow, I would prefer to tell my crew that Macs behave much differently than powerboats, and the chances of sinking are almost nil. The crew gets vibes from the skipper, and soon learn.
I too prefer to angle at 45 degrees to larger powerboat waves when possible.

Phil M

[LOUIS B HOLUB]

I have never heard of a Mac turtling, and even if turtling did happen to a Mac somewhere somehow, I would prefer to tell my crew that Macs behave much differently than powerboats, and the chances of sinking are almost nil. The crew gets vibes from the skipper, and soon learn.
I too prefer to angle at 45 degrees to larger powerboat waves when possible.

Phil M

Likewise, I've never heard of a full ballast Mac turtling...seems impossible. I would assume a roll over due to wind blast, rogue wave, etc. is possible, but the Mac should be upright when finished rolling -- if the boat hangs together and doesnt fall to pieces in such an event.
But, we're fair weather sailors, and my comments are assumptions.

[pokerrick1]

Ditto take on the big wakes at 45 degrees

Rick

[DaveB]

Just don't take the boat out in 5ft. plus seas in winds over 30 knots, the boat will round up if you have to much sail up in a quick blow and spill the wind or knock you down to spill the wind and will come up very quickly.
If you know there may be heavy wind comeing ,secure the forward and companionway hatch.
Old sailer tale is, If you think you need to reef do so. Better happy than sorrow.
Dave

When they release the masthead from the surface of the water, and the boat immediately and forcefully rights itself to vertical, it is an impressive feature in the MacGregor M sales video. Leads one to believe that – with a full ballast tank – the vessel would never roll onto its side and take water.

In fact, everything ever written about sailboats assert that a monohull sailboat is never more stable than when it is healing, since that’s when the weighted keel is highest in the water and at that point it exerts the most downward pressure to keep the vessel upright and vertical.

We’ve been sailing on Lake Charlevoix in Northern MI, a large lake with excellent wind for sailing. But it also has its share of large powerboats all of which put out huge wave rollers from their wakes. These keep us vigorously rocking from side to side, which frightens my crew. This takes me to my question.

Have any of you ever been swamped or laid on your side by rollers striking from abeam?
Is this something we need to worry about? If so, what’s the solution, if any?

(Yes, of course, I often try to strike these waves on the perpendicular, but can’t do that with all of them or I’d be constantly turning my boat off of its course and never getting anywhere. And yes, when under power, I often cut my speed to reduce the impact.)

What are your comments about this?

[magnetic]

Wake from powerboats is just a discomfort thing; the only real danger comes from short steep waves, especially if they are breaking.

There is some scientific research to the effect that a breaking wave only half as high as a the maximum beam of a boat can roll it, which for a would be little more than 4ft. The key - as mentioned above - is to stem the waves at 45 degrees, not to try to turn in the trough and, above all, not to fly off the top of one wave and stuff the bows into the back of the next one, which will frequently cause a broach and a roll. This is a particular problem when going downwind, especially under power, and is again best managed by taking the wave at 45 degrees rather than all up / all down

The has bags of stability, but it is high and narrow and consequently feels more precarious and "tender" than many other boats. Relatively speaking, however, it takes quite a bit to get significant amounts of water coming into the cockpit; I've had waves coming "green" over the bow and the water still dissipated long before it got anywhere near the companionway hatch.

[Jamie79]

I don't have much experience in boats, but I've been in a bass boat with 2 to 3 foot waves on lake Murray, sc, sorry waves may not be the right terminology. 3 and 4 foot on a pontoon on the same lake, and 5 plus on a 17 foot center console in lake Marion sc. I do not have any proffesional training, I try to avoid this because it sux when everyone on board is freaking out. The boats I have been on in these conditions are not my boats but friends of mine who get scared and want me to drive? Not sure why I guess I'm just confident. I usually go out on rivers in small boats. I have never been scared of sinking in the above boats, severely worries at times as I know the above boats weren't built for the conditions other than the cc, I understand the MAC has a high freeboard, but does it justify being so worried? Or am I just lucky?

[ROAD Soldier]

The very first time I took my 26X out the winds were pushing 22knots and the waves were three feet. There was a driving cold rain in March on the Chesapeake Bay and at the time I had never sailed a boat that had a head sail before. I had my wife with me too so no matter how un easy I might have felt I darn sure could not show it because I would still be hearing about it today. Also on top of that just between us here on this site I didn't have a chart plotter yet at the time and with the driving rain going on mother nature temporarily misinformed me where I was for about an hour. Now during this time my wife never got scared because of my actions of hooting and hollering, drinking beer, and saying things like I just want to see what is over here. Lessons you should learn from this story; pressure makes diamonds, keep your cool even when stressed and that will keep your passengers cool, and lastly your boat can handle more than you can so be a man and at least meet up with it half way. Unless you got the USS Nimitz making a wake at the bow, beam, or to the stern of your Mac don't worry about it.

[magnetic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5BVlg6MuJE

[Québec 1]

I was out in this weather for 4 hours. I was happy there were 2 guys to grab my lines when I came in!!!
http://s263.photobucket.com/albums/ii12 ... G_3147.mp4
Q1

PS I had worst weather on the way back, it broke a bunch of plastic stuff in the boat and the fruit in the hanging netting thing was splattered all over the boat.

[jschrade]

You need a sail up (preferably the main) to dampen the roll from the waves. It stops the rolling of the boat you only pitch.

Jim

[magnetic]

In the video Quebec had his entire cockpit canopy unfurled and half a dozen flags up - he could probably have made 6 knots downwind just with that lot! The only thing slowing his boat down was that he appears to have the truly awful Honda BF50 slung across the stern

[Québec 1]

What can I say...it came with the boat