Stiff steering

[bugman]

We had an amazing time sailing this weekend, in the Gulf Islands on a very windy weekend. Well sailing downwind we averaged 10knts hitting a top speed of 11.8knts for over a half hour. At these speeds the steering was very stiff and the boat was difficult to control. The seas were about 4 to 6 ft.; we were under mainsail only with the motor still connected.

Why was the steering so stiff? And what can I do to fix the problem? I do not wont to disconnect the motor so it can be at the ready when needed.

[yukonbob]

mostly the engine still attached. The speeds and pushing into the swell and being over sailed may have been a factor but mostly the engine.

[seahouse]

Also sounds like you might have been battling weather helm under those conditions. If so, that would have required a constant and considerable correcting input with the rudders.

If that’s the case, then try any or all of the methods normally used to reduce weather helm.
ie. mast rake, sheet out the main, increase twist in main, use headsail, reef the main, ease the boom vang etc.

-Brian.

[Québec 1]

we averaged 10knts hitting a top speed of 11.8knts for over a half hour.

Love it, he's sailing his Mac at 11.8 knots and still complaining. I do believe a number of folks with real sail boats would love to have your problem. It's true,with big winds at your back a Mac can move pretty fast, and a lot faster than many real sail boats.
Q1

[cptron]

You might also want to make sure your rudders are cleated all the way down. Going those speeds they might have a tendancy to ride up and make steering more difficult.

[bscott]

We had an amazing time sailing this weekend, in the Gulf Islands on a very windy weekend. Well sailing downwind we averaged 10knts hitting a top speed of 11.8knts for over a half hour. At these speeds the steering was very stiff and the boat was difficult to control. The seas were about 4 to 6 ft.; we were under mainsail only with the motor still connected.

Why was the steering so stiff? And what can I do to fix the problem? I do not wont to disconnect the motor so it can be at the ready when needed.

Was the engine down while connected? Engine Mfg and HP?
What was your center board position?
Why did you not fly your jib?
Did you have your backstay "ON"?
What was your point of sail? Beam reach, DDW?

Bob

[Catigale]

Ditto post on rudder position

At 10 knots there is a lot of force pushing the rudders back, which will move the lever arm way past the steering deign limit. The steering box will likely fail under such conditions, ergo the factory recommendation to raise the rudders over 6 knots.

Sailing at 10 knots without rudders shoud be interesting.....

[dlandersson]

Per the manual, anything over 8 knots, you are supposed to raise the rudders and swing keel. Naughty, naughty.

We had an amazing time sailing this weekend, in the Gulf Islands on a very windy weekend. Well sailing downwind we averaged 10knts hitting a top speed of 11.8knts for over a half hour. At these speeds the steering was very stiff and the boat was difficult to control. The seas were about 4 to 6 ft.; we were under mainsail only with the motor still connected.

Why was the steering so stiff? And what can I do to fix the problem? I do not wont to disconnect the motor so it can be at the ready when needed.

[K9Kampers]

Per the manual, anything over 8 knots, you are supposed to raise the rudders and swing keel. Naughty, naughty.

That's for powering... raising rudders whilst sailing results in steering loss, making what happens next very interesting or dangerous. Naughty, naughty...

[Calin]

If not for the exceptional speed performance, almost twice I’ve ever had, I would think the stiff steering is due to the fact the engine is still connected. If raised, it is even harder to steer the boat. There are solutions out there that would disconnect the engine from the rudders and connect it in a straight position. In that position it will be still quite useful as you can lower it and get in an instant the push you may need.

[rfrye94760]

At those speeds, I'd guess engine down and running.

[Crikey]

There are solutions out there that would disconnect the engine from the rudders and connect it in a straight position.

There is only one solution: BWY
And it does what you want

[seahouse]

If the steering were stiff as a result of the motor being connected, then the steering would be stiff at low speeds as well, which is contrary to what the OP reported.

The Spitfire WWII fighter controls were discovered to become very stiff at high speed in a dive, (aileron reversal); the ailerons actually reversed their effect.

Maybe this Mac is displaying similar such tendencies at speed –because it’s approaching “Mac 1”.

- Brian.

[dlandersson]

That's for anything. The manual assumes if you are going 10 knots, you are powering. The pressure on the rudders and keel in the same, regardless.

Per the manual, anything over 8 knots, you are supposed to raise the rudders and swing keel. Naughty, naughty.

That's for powering... raising rudders whilst sailing results in steering loss, making what happens next very interesting or dangerous. Naughty, naughty...

[bugman]

Thank you for all your input. The rudders were fully down and cleated off, I have had them come up before. We were sailing with both the genoa partially furled but found it was hard to control and one more thing to worry about. The main was reefed. The wind was dead behind us. I did drop the motor to slow us down and I was hoping that it would help make the stirring easier. At the speed we going the forces on the rudders must have been intense. I think a strong weather helm would be the best explanation for the stiff stirring. It was one wild ride, I wish I had a video to put on youtube!! Next time.