Dockline practicality - where is your bitter end?

[DaveC426913]

I see some sailors prefer bowlines on their dock cleats and keep the excess dockline on their boats.

There's a discussion on Facebook (although it's actually about cheesing AKA Flemish coils, but that's not my issue) with varying opinions. Some prefer the bitter end in their boat.

What are the pros and cons of each? (bowline knot or eye loop on dock - versus on boat)
Which do you use, and do you switch it up if you dock at a new place?

[Russ]

I use premade docklines with pre-made loops (because I suck at splicing).

Keep the loop on the cleat. Excess line coiled on the dock.

Once all lines are adjusted, I just need to remove the loop and put it back when I return. No more adjusting.

I cleat it like this so it can't slip off.

[WinSome]

We’ve a full set of dock lines attached to the cleats with the bow and can tie up on either side at any time using the bitter end. Especially where we often splash, it’s launch on port side and retrieve from starboard. Lines needed either side.



I frequently sail with buddy Bob, from his slip. He maintains a set of dock lines attached to the finger dock and just slips off the bows from the boat cleats and leaves them on the dock. ( we’re usually returning in a few hours). He has adequate additional dock lines rigged as to be able to execute a nice soft landing, then we pick up the prepped lines (from the dock) and slip the bow around the cleats.
I’d say it all depends on your sailing situation.
Personally I prefer to contact the dock with my ‘cleatergreeter’ and will make that another topic to share with you in a couple days after I can get some decent pics. But still need lots of good dock lines.

[kingtoros]

I want to do it, this year is 20 years since I left the Navy... Okay here goes...

Back in MY day, we doubled up all lines, and kept the excess on both the dock and the boat (proper term for a submarine if spoken by a submariner). Four lines, two faked down on the boat, two on the dock. That way, when the command to "single up" all lines came, you had something to do.

But.. I don't really remember, and I may have seen that in a dream or movie.

Our protocol on the is to send over the long lines onto the dock along with the jumper to catch the boat as like any good fighter pilot hitting the deck of an aircraft carrier, I hit the after burners (in reverse, unlike the brave airdales) to avoid colliding with the dock and see if I can pull the brave jumper into the water.

[Be Free]

I see some sailors prefer bowlines on their dock cleats and keep the excess dockline on their boats.

There's a discussion on Facebook (although it's actually about cheesing AKA Flemish coils, but that's not my issue) with varying opinions. Some prefer the bitter end in their boat.

What are the pros and cons of each? (bowline knot or eye loop on dock - versus on boat)
Which do you use, and do you switch it up if you dock at a new place?

I don't think I've ever put the bowline or splice on my dock cleat. I can't think of a good reason to do it that way unless I had to deal with a tide and I was staying on the boat at the dock. It would complicate casting off unless I wanted to leave the lines behind.

Pro:

• The lines can be adjusted while you are on the boat.

• It's harder to see whether you tied your cleat hitch correctly.

Con:

• You pretty much have to leave the lines at the dock when you leave and they will probably just be tossed on the dock (not coiled).

• You have to go out on the bow to untie one of the dock lines.

• Coming back to the dock you need to have someone toss the lines to the boat, get off the boat and toss the lines back, get off the boat and jump back on with a line, or use a tool to pick up the line from the dock.

• It would be difficult for one person to step aboard with both dock lines and secure both bow and stern quickly.

• It would be difficult for a solo sailor to step off the boat, get one or both dock lines and then step back aboard.

I put the spliced loop of my dock lines through the eye of the cleat on the boat and tie up to the dock cleat. I coil the bitter end on the dock to minimize the tripping hazard but I'm seldom at the dock long enough to Flemish it. I almost always dock and cast off by myself.

Pro:

• If you are coming back to the same dock and don't have to deal with tides, you can just slip the loop off the boat and leave the line on the dock. When you return you just slip the loop back through the eye and around the horns. This would be a good time to Flemish the line left on the dock.

• You can untie the dock lines from the dock and step onto the boat holding one or both of the bitter ends in your hand. If you leave a loop around the dock cleat it will allow you to control the boat if you are leaving the dock in a current or crosswind.

• If you need to cast the dock line off the bitter end is less likely to get caught on the dock than an end with a bowline or a spliced loop.

• When you come back to the dock you already have one end of the dock line attached to the boat. One person can step off the boat with one or both dock lines and easily secure it.

• You can make a pretty coil of rope on the dock for other people to admire.

Con:

• Unless you have doubled the line you can't adjust it while you are on the boat.

• For safety you need to make sure that the unused dock line is not a tripping hazard.

• You need to tie a proper cleat hitch so you don't look like a lubber.

[DaveC426913]

I don't think I've ever put the bowline or splice on my dock cleat. I can't think of a good reason to do it that way unless I had to deal with a tide and I was staying on the boat at the dock. It would complicate casting off unless I wanted to leave the lines behind.

Pro:

• The lines can be adjusted while you are on the boat.

• It's harder to see whether you tied your cleat hitch correctly.

Con:

• You pretty much have to leave the lines at the dock when you leave and they will probably just be tossed on the dock (not coiled).

• You have to go out on the bow to untie one of the dock lines.

• Coming back to the dock you need to have someone toss the lines to the boat, get off the boat and toss the lines back, get off the boat and jump back on with a line, or use a tool to pick up the line from the dock.

• It would be difficult for one person to step aboard with both dock lines and secure both bow and stern quickly.

• It would be difficult for a solo sailor to step off the boat, get one or both dock lines and then step back aboard.

Sorry, the dock lines still go with the boat.
1. is standard.
2. is custom.



It's confusing to me. I think the idea is that they're never docking anywhere else, so their docklines are always exactly the same length when in-use.
They just step off the boat with the line and toss the eye over the cleat.
When they set out, they just pull the eye off the cleat. Not sure how they cinch their boats up tight.

Maybe I will ask one of them this spring.

[Russ]

It's confusing to me. I think the idea is that they're never docking anywhere else, so their docklines are always exactly the same length when in-use.
They just step off the boat with the line and toss the eye over the cleat.
When they set out, they just pull the eye off the cleat. Not sure how they cinch their boats up tight.

Maybe I will ask one of them this spring.

For me, we always tie up in the same slip.
Therefore, the dock lines are pre-adjusted to the exact length required and they stay ON THE DOCK.

When I leave, i remove the eye from the cleat on the boat and toss the line on the dock as neatly as possible (Or hang it on a piling)

On return, I use a boat hook and grab the line and lower the loop over the cleats on the boat. Easy peezy.

I also put dock guards and bumpers ON THE DOCK so they are always there and no adjustments are needed.

Of course, this only works if you are in a dedicated slip.

[Be Free]

What Russ said.

There was a time when I kept my boat at my son's lake house for the better part of a year. The dock lines stayed on the dock and were never untied. I just pulled the boat a little closer to the dock, compressing the fenders and removed the spliced eye from the cleat on my boat when I wanted to go sailing. When I returned the loop went back through the eye of the boat cleat and around the horns. No adjustment needed and no point in taking the dock lines as there was nowhere else on the lake I'd ever dock.

[Russ]

This guy seems to have a system.

[Russ]

Then there is the expert at the ramp. He's got it figured out

[DaveC426913]

Of course, this only works if you are in a dedicated slip.

And if you don't ever stop anywhere else - planned or unplanned.

I would feel unprepared for contingencies. Far be it from me to speak for anyone else's experience but there are a dozen scenarios I can think of where I'd want all my brain power devoted to getting to some unfamiliar harbour safely without having to figure out if I've got spare dock lines and spare fenders within arm's reach.


Now that I'm reading others' responses about private docs on small lakes, or boat ramps etc. I see that my own experience may not be everyone's.
I have a dedicated slip, in a busy marina/club.
I often go to other clubs.
I often dock on a wall in the busy city harbour.
There is plenty of weather, and I have on occasion had to pull into safe harbour to wait it out.

I was primarily thinking of other boaters in my club, who use this method on their bigger boats, and I'm not sure why. They go to other clubs all the time. Do they do little circles outside the harbour entrance while they futz with their lines?

[Russ]

When I lived back east and cruised Long Island sound, there were often all kinds of docking/mooring experiences.

You have to be prepared for anything. Pilings, floating docks, mooring balls.

I found a fender board worked great when tying up to a fixed piling dock. I remember tying up in Port Jefferson and a few hours later finding the tide had dropped 5 feet. Gotta plan mooring lines for tides.

[Be Free]

Sorry, the dock lines still go with the boat.
1. is standard.
2. is custom.

This is the reason you got push back (at least from me). Leaving the dock lines on the dock is the standard and the custom for some boaters, occasionally including myself.

That said, I've not left my dock lines on a dock in more than six years. In the last six years the only time I've been tied to a dock was when I was raising or lowering my mast. Once I leave my boat ramp there is not another public dock or marina within 40 miles in any direction so even though I have my dock lines (and spares) with me there won't be a place to use them.

[WinSome]

We maintain a full set of dock lines on both sides, even when just messing around locally. That’s where our lines live. And the cleatergreeter gets used regularly. It’s made our docking simpler.

[OverEasy]

We maintain a full set of dock lines on both sides, even when just messing around locally. That’s where our lines live. And the cleatergreeter gets used regularly. It’s made our docking simpler.

We’re with the leave the lines on the boat approach.
We also have two lines per side as well.

Our line are 25 ft each which has really worked well for us.

When departing the Admiral is standing in the forward hatch.
I untie fwd bow line from the dock cleat, loop around the dock cleat horn and give the bitter end to the Admiral.
I then untie the aft stern line from the dock cleat, loop around the dock cleat horn and climb aboard keeping tension on the bitter end.
Then as we back away from the dock we let the lines slip off the dock cleat horns and pull them aboard to stow.

When landing we utilize our two boat hooks (fore and aft) to snag the dock cleats.
I can generally lasso the aft dock cleat from the cockpit and temporarily tie off to the boat cleat while the Admiral holds the bow on to the dock cleat with the boat hook.
I then get off the boat onto the dock and go forward to take the bow line from the Admiral and tie on to the dock fwd cleat.
I finish up by going aft to remove the bitter end temporarily tied to the boat and then tie on to the dock aft cleat.
To help keep the boat stable in the slip I then take the remaining bow line from the Admiral and tie on to the main dock which centers the boat in our space.

We have a fair amount of reversing tidal currents running through our marina as well as some nice breezes to contend with.
With this method we have an easy way of maintaining positive control of the boat when departing and landing.
Keeping the lines on the boat also allows us a consistent process when we visit other marinas or shore side restaurants with docks or when we occasionally raft up with others.
While the sides may change the process remains the same to maintain positive control.
When the tidal currents are flowing these currents will either be pushing one into or out of one’s slip so generally one tends to have some level of power on to maintain position control.
We also generally keep three fenders tied onto each side of our vessel (that we haul in when in motion) to keep things consistent.
A few ‘extra’ steps isn’t an issue for us.

We’ve seen multiple times where boat who leave their lines on the dock have had issues with lines dropping into the water as they cast off which can be a hazard to other vessels using the slipways leading to fouled props and loss of vessel control. (Something I’d like to avoid being responsible for.)
We’ve also seen folks not snag their lines on the dock when landing but do manage to dump them in the water which can also lead to prop fouling issues .(When the tidal currents are flowing these currents will either be pushing one into or out of one’s slip so generally one tends to have some level of power on to maintain position control.)

It’s what works well and consistently for our operations.

There is no one ‘best’ process.
Everyone needs to find what works for their situations, locations and usages.

Best Regards
Over Easy