Fire Extinguishers - Colorful Review

[Frank C]

Marine extinguishers are usually white in color, rated for B or C fires. White BC Extinguisher, Sailnet special price @ $13 each. Meanwhile, Costco stores are offering the traditional red, ABC-style extinguishers at a price of $18 for a twin-pack, each larger than the sailnet special. If you priced the white model at West Marine you'd find, true to expectations, the marine moniker nearly quadruples the price, versus Costco. Are any fire control officers out there willing to opine on the MARINE benefits and risks of white (BC) marine cans versus red (ABC) cans?

I've had the two of the red extinguishers aboard for about 3 years now, one mounted so it rests vertically above the galley sink, and the other one horizontally along the aft dinette (along the bulkhead supporting the aft dinette seat. I also have the white can (dealer-issue) mounted vertically just inside the companionway, adjacent to the breaker panel.

BTW, remember to remove and "agitate" twice each year to alleviate gravity-packing of their contents. When I did so a few weeks ago, I noted that my white can has expired (pointer indicating red), while both of my red cans show pointers just barely in the green sector ... replacement imminent, hence this green-to-red and white/red question.

[Paul S]

Marine extinguishers are usually white in color, rated for B or C fires. White BC Extinguisher, Sailnet special price @ $13 each. Meanwhile, Costco stores are offering the traditional red, ABC-style extinguishers at a price of $18 for a twin-pack, each larger than the sailnet special. If you priced the white model at West Marine you'd find, true to expectations, the marine moniker nearly quadruples the price, versus Costco. Are any fire control officers out there willing to opine on the MARINE benefits and risks of white (BC) marine cans versus red (ABC) cans?

I've had the two of the red extinguishers aboard for about 3 years now, one mounted so it rests vertically above the galley sink, and the other one horizontally along the aft dinette (along the bulkhead supporting the aft dinette seat. I also have the white can (dealer-issue) mounted vertically just inside the companionway, adjacent to the breaker panel.

BTW, remember to remove and "agitate" twice each year to alleviate gravity-packing of their contents. When I did so a few weeks ago, I noted that my white can has expired (pointer indicating red), while both of my red cans show pointers just barely in the green sector ... replacement imminent, hence this green-to-red and white/red question.

Funny you mention that. I just bought that 2 pack from Costco yesterday. Can't beat that deal. Marine approved as well

Paul

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

The color doesn't matter, but they must have a printed Coast Guard approval on them to be accepted during an inspection.

Not all sold have this, but the marine store ones always do at twice the price.

[Frank C]

Actually, the color is significant ... a white can is "BC" rated, while the red can is "ABC" rated. I just found this website with an answer of sorts:

The A, B, C dry chemical is not recommended for marine use for two reasons:
- It is corrosive
- The way in which this agent obtains it class A rating is its ability to melt, seep and encase. This necessitates dismantling of equipment to repair or rebuild.

I'm not sure this explanation actually condemns the ABC extinguisher from applicability on my boat ... anyone think why those reasons would be critical on a Macgregor?

[Frank C]

Just noticed that even the red ABC extinguisher in my kitchen is USCG approved for B and C fires. Still no answer to why a red, ABC extinguisher is not carried in West Marine (surely a slur on its 'marine' qualifications) but this Coast Guard website has some interesting info. In particular, there's a definition of "portable" fuel tanks:

Fire Extinguishers are required on boats when any of the following conditions exist:

- Inboard engines are installed.
- There are closed compartments and compartments under seats where portable fuel tanks may be stored.
- There are double bottoms not sealed to the hull or which are not completely filled with flotation materials.
- There are closed living spaces.
- There are closed stowage compartments in which combustible or flammable materials are stored.
- There are permanently installed fuel tanks. (Fuel tanks secured so they cannot be moved in case of fire or other emergency are considered permanently installed. There are no gallon capacity limits to determine if a fuel tank is portable. If the weight of a fuel tank is such that persons on board cannot move it, the Coast Guard considers it permanently installed.)

Absent compelling info to the contrary, I think I'll go ahead and get two more of the red ABC extinguishers from Costco.

[Paul S]

Just noticed that even the red ABC extinguisher in my kitchen is USCG approved for B and C fires. Still no answer to why a red, ABC extinguisher is not carried in West Marine (surely a slur on its 'marine' qualifications) but this Coast Guard website has some interesting info. In particular, there's a definition of "portable" fuel tanks:

Fire Extinguishers are required on boats when any of the following conditions exist:

- Inboard engines are installed.
- There are closed compartments and compartments under seats where portable fuel tanks may be stored.
- There are double bottoms not sealed to the hull or which are not completely filled with flotation materials.
- There are closed living spaces.
- There are closed stowage compartments in which combustible or flammable materials are stored.
- There are permanently installed fuel tanks. (Fuel tanks secured so they cannot be moved in case of fire or other emergency are considered permanently installed. There are no gallon capacity limits to determine if a fuel tank is portable. If the weight of a fuel tank is such that persons on board cannot move it, the Coast Guard considers it permanently installed.)

Absent compelling info to the contrary, I think I'll go ahead and get two more of the red ABC extinguishers from Costco.

Who knew Costco would be a great marine store. Got the 1000 watt inverter from them, 5 day cooler that fits in the cutout on the M, fire ext., waterproof handheld spotlight and other stuff.

Paul

[Norm]

The color of the extinguisher doesn't matter. Those little disposable exts that you get fom Costco and West Marine are identical inside. The only differance is what type, and how much, dry chemical is in it. A "BC" ext uses Sodium Bicarbonate (baking soda), which is easier to clean up and is non corrosive. The "ABC" exts use Monomonium Phosphate, which is mildly corrosive and melts into pourous surfaces, which allows it to extinguish grass, paper, etc fires. Also making cleanup more difficult. Both types of dry chemical exts can be USCG approved as long as they contain adequate ammounts of their respective chemical. And to make it more confusing, "BC" exts also come in red, and "ABC" exts also come in white. The disposable exts shoud be replaced every 5 years. The neck o-ring and rubber gasket inside on the valve stem become worn and brittle. Thats why yours is losing pressure. They are a good deal for the price though.

I am a Fire Protection Engineer and one of the things I do for a living is sell and recharge/repair fire extinguishers, so I may be a bit over the top on my choices of exts on my boat. But this is what I have decided is the ultimate; I have a 2-1/2lb Halon ext mounted just inside the cabin aft of the head. Halon is a liquid gas that removes oxygen and leaves no mess. Great stuff, but expensive ($75). I have a 2-1/2lb ABC ($25) ext mounted in front of the head, and as a backup I have a 5lb ABC ($40) tucked away under the forward dinnette seat. I decided to go with the ABC over the "BC" because I don't care that much about mess, a fire is already a big mess, and there is the potential for a grass fire when we beach and camp out. Since you can never be sure what type of fire you will come accross, I figure why cheat yourself out of the "A" rating. All my exts are high quality rechargeable types. Stainless steel cylinders versus aluminium, and crome plated brass valve assemblys versus plastic. They last forever.

Hope that is helpfull, I'd be happy to answear any questions.
Norm.

[Norm]

P.S. Those disposable exts are notorious for leaking pressure. 5 years is only an average replacment period. I've seen them come out of the factory box already dead. They should be checked often and replaced if the pressure is out of the green.

[Frank C]

The color of the extinguisher doesn't matter. Those little disposable exts that you get fom Costco and West Marine are identical inside. The only differance is what type, and how much, dry chemical ... I decided to go with the ABC over the "BC" because I don't care that much about mess, a fire is already a big mess, ... Norm.

Norm,
Absolutely a perfect answer to my questions ... tradeoffs, risks, etc ... plus your conclusion matched my preliminary guess - that the chemical mess is secondary to utility and function. For once, the price advantage is with the logical choice, so I guess the Costco solution works for me.

Anyway, I thought I remembered somebody here was qualified to answer. It's terrific to frequently find such knowledgeable resources on this website. Thanks very much.

[Norm]

My pleasure Frank. You did good to go with the ABC's. I always thought it was funny that West Marine goes with the white exts to give the illusion that they are somehow better for marine purposes, and therefore more expensive of course. Plus BC chemical is a little cheaper than ABC chemical, so they make out there too. As long as the exts you bought are big enough, they will have the USCG approvel on the UL listing info.

[Sea Dragon]

Norm, I was surprised to hear you are using a Halon unit. I thought EPA outlawed the use of Halon. We used halon supression units in the engine compartments of all our tanks and fighting vehicles up until a few uears ago and had to replace them since it was damaging the ozone.

John Little

[TonyHouk]

John,
That is surprising on the Halon. Ev bottles on our every one of the big bottles on our flight line is a Halon bottle. Even the bottles on our birds are halon except for the one etleneglycol bottle. Happy sails, Tony

[Norm]

Halon is being phased out do to EPA concerns. Fire extinguisher companys that still have halon gas in stock are allowed to sell it, however there is a heavy environmentel impact tax on it, thus the $20 per pound price tag. There is only one manufacturer, AMEREX, that still sells them new as far as I know, and that is only until their stock runs out. The current replacement for Halon is Halotron, which is almost as expensive and only half as effective. Not a good option in my opinion. You'd be better off to go with a trusty old CO2 ext.

John, what did the Army replace the Halon units with? I'm curious what the Feds decided was an acceptable replacement.

[craiglaforce]

What a shame about Halon being discontinued. I've seen it in action and it is truly amazing the way it puts out fires. I've got an old 5 lb unit in the basement that would put out a full house fire I think.

I think they should make an exception for halon fire extinguishers and keep making them unless they can find an equally good replacement. This small quantity in such an important application to me is a fair tradeoff.
R22 is still scheduled for phaseout last time I heard, and studies have shown that it disintegrates before it can reach the ozone layer and is hence harmless to the ozone layer. I wonder if the same is true for Halon?

[Norm]

The folks that lobbied in defense of Halon claim that you would have to let loose all the Halon in the world all at once in order to have any effect on the ozone.

One more thing about Halon. The smaller exts are only rated "BC". You have to get up in the 10lb range to get the "ABC" rating. However, in real life, I've put out a small brush fire with just 1lb of the stuff. It works on everything, even in small amounts.