Early M retro fit

[billfish]

Has anyone heard of retro fitting the galley area of a 2003/2004 M into the port side sliding galley like the 2005 has?
I tried the MOD pages and Search but with no luck.

[DLT]

My sliding galley is too big to fit beside the daggerboard.

So, I suspect that the 2003 vintage galley was quite a bit smaller than the 2005 vintage, not to mention the 2003 being built in, missing the 2005 slide tracks, etc...

[Terry]

Why would you want to!
In fact why would you want anything that moves like that on a heeling sailboat?
The '03-'04 galley setup is superior and the only reason it was changed was due to consumer preference for a dinette. If you already have the older model (I do) leave it as is!

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

Of course you might want a galley you can actually use, which is another reason they changed it. Not only is the early one too small it is blocked by the table and you have to half kneel on the Stbd seat to use it. My biggest complaint about the early design is it put everything smack dab in the center of the boat. The table is there, you have to stand there to use the galley, etc. It made the boat very much a couples boat, not a family boat. In the current design you can actually have people sitting at the table and using the galley at the same time.

If you were to buy a galley unit from the factory it shouldn't be too hard to get the track part setup. If you just want a bigger more functional galley you could skip the track and just bolt it in your prefered position. Then you have to rip out the old one, add a seat, and then fashion a table and aft seat.

I think the hard part would be that. I seem to recall that they didn't just move the galley, they changed the entire lower pan unit putting in the aft seat area and raising the whole thing up so there is more storage under every seat. You'd have to adapt everything to the lower pan height in the older boats.

[kziadie]

I have the new layout and am happy with it. The galley does not move unless you move it, even if you dont use the provided latches (which I dont even bother with). I also like the fact that it is right by the companionway which means the cooking odors go right outside. I agree with the others also about the benefit of less disruption at the dinette table.

Having said all of that, if I had an older M I am not sure I would think it worth the hassle of trying to retrofit it. Both designs have their pros and cons. If I was going to do it and it required purchasing a new galley I dont think I would buy the factory unit but rather look at making something custom about a foot longer with a larger sink.

Kelly

[beene]

I love my '07 layout. We, family of 4, find it works out great. The kids always eat first, taking them all of 5 seconds, then the wife and I get to relax and have a quiet meal while the kiddies read, watch a movie or play in another part of the boat. When we are actually making a meal, we move the galley fwd just enough to sit nicely at the bottom of the stairs. Then move it back just as soon as we are done with it. Lots of space that way, long cozy couch, right across from the dinette, love it. When overnighting, we always move the galley all the way fwd, leaving lots of room to get back to the aft birth, which is important when making overnight trips to use the facilities.

Very happy with our layout for sure.

But to each their own.

G

[They Theirs]

Terry is “Spot-On”
The 03’- 04’ large volume interior featured lounge seating and a quick easy set-up center cabin table. Everyone enjoys the extra room in the cabin.

Roger acted upon requests for more room and better seating for crew and guests when producing the all-new M powersailor. The new model was severely criticized by Classic-X owners, unhappy the new model had little in common with their Classics, as it was completely new inside and out. Bringing back the Classic X dinette/sleeper somewhat pacified those prejudiced against the new M, so the sliding galley was brought back from early classic MacGregors. Many early Classic owners found their sliding galleys less than desirable, wobbly, and removed them for more room and less weight.

SLIDING GALLEY’S OVER THE YEARS


Many overlook the 03’, 04’ easy access rear birth, open on both sides of the cabin ladder. The 05’ and later models, addition of the dinette’s/sleeper, aft seat removable backrest, and the sliding galley requires re-moving both to provide access in and out of the birth.

LARGE VOLUME INTERIOR 03’, 04’ MODEL

LATE MODEL INTERIOR



Moving about in the 03’-04’ large volume interior is much better for big folks, and lots of adult legroom when sitting at the table or lounging.

LARGE VOLUME INTERIOR LOUNGE SEAT DINING


The 05’ and later dinette seat at the daggerboard is too narrow for two full size adults.

LATE MODEL DINETTE SEAT


We cook outside, heat coffee inside

This Change? Roger builds some 600 boats per year, limited by the AQMD
LARGE VOLUME INTERIOR CABIN BASE


CABIN BASE INTERIOR 05’

[Catigale]

I love the 03 04 M design for a family cruiser but do like the full functioning shower/head too...

My guess (for which I have absolutely zero supporting evidence) is Roger had a problem with his molds or manufacturing since changing a design after 2 years is really expensive...those forms have to be ROH 1M USD which is hard to recover selling 300 boats at 10,000 USD each

I doubt Roger was driven by previous owners since, lets face it, we are not the market place - this is a first buyers boat market.

Whatever decisions he has made, the fact that he has made money in the boat business on this end of the market makes me tip my hat to him - this is an incredibly tough business to stay in black ink in the long term - you can google a long list of boat manufacturers that are now in David Edward Jones Financial Locker.....

[Terry]

Of course you might want a galley you can actually use, which is another reason they changed it. Not only is the early one too small it is blocked by the table and you have to half kneel on the Stbd seat to use it. My biggest complaint about the early design is it put everything smack dab in the center of the boat. The table is there, you have to stand there to use the galley, etc. It made the boat very much a couples boat, not a family boat. In the current design you can actually have people sitting at the table and using the galley at the same time.

I can sit at my table and use the galley at the same time effortlessly, not a problem at all. As for the knee on the starboard seat, that was one of Moe's unsupported comments also and easily disproved as I can cook in my kitchen standing at the counter to the left of the stove and easily reach all four burners and tend the pots on each without having to bring a chair over to place my knee on. I find such comments only serve to dennigrate one's credibility more than to be constructive critisism.
I do not find the galley too small nor is it blocked in any way, as a matter of fact, my table is in two pieces and I can choose to put one leaf in to serve as extended counter space if I so desire but since most cooking is done in the cockpit on my Sport barbecue or coleman stove it is a moot point.
Different configurations serve different folks different ways, some are just more preferable than others for different folks, but that does not neccessarily make other configurations bad. Unfounded personal critisms are what caused the last X vs M flare-up when the board was shut down, I guess some people never learn.

[They Theirs]

This owner chose to increase his storage and seat height. We have never seen another,

[DLT]

This owner chose to increase his storage and seat height. We have never seen another,

Maybe because the 2005 version raised the seats...

Storage is an issue on any boat. hull, storage is an issue at my house. We all deal with that issue in our own way...

[kziadie]

I have to second Catigale's thought about the ability to have a functioning shower in the head of the X. You can argue the merits of the two M designs but I think any M owner would tell you they are happy with their cabin but that a shower would be nice.

I personally am quite happy hanging a sunshower off the jib halyard on the foredeck, but the admiral and crew dont share my enthusiasm.

Kelly

[They Theirs]

“Sitting Big” and “Showers”

I believe there was an increase in the seat height with the battery box upgrade, on the Large Volume Interior, late 04’ M. The 05’ reissued the Classic-X dinette/sleeper, a new version of the early classics sliding galley, and yet higher seating with some rimmed windows.

EARLY 03’, 04’


LATE 04’


05’


Were not sure, what is a “FULL” Shower on these small boats?

From the Net:
Jack posted….Gee, here are a few things to consider:

How much mildew and condensation will you generate when showering? You don’t tell us where you are: big difference between Seattle and Miami, for example. You can deal with this if it’s a problem (e.g. use a dehumidifier) but it’s something to think about.

Where does the grey water drain? Apparently, into the bilge. Ugh... That’s going to be a big source of stink and growth. If you have a shower pan in one of the heads (you seem to suggest that), but it doesn’t lead to a separate shower sump (with its own pump), you should buy one. You can purchase a complete, off the shelf & self-contained unit from e.g. PAR/Jabsco and plumb it in for not much money. You need to send the stuff overboard.

Boats with two heads (again, that sounds like yours) will often set up one head for showering (full shower curtain, all the way around) and fall back on the other head for the balance of bodily functions. This won’t eliminate any mold/mildew issues for the head with the shower; it will minimize them.

Can you get water aboard all winter long? If in cold climates, dock water lines are sometimes drained to protect them. Not good to run out of shower water, not be able to make coffee AND no way to fill the tanks.

You do have a reliable source of hot water, right?


Ahhhh…Exactly how big is that head? Would that be a fresh water shower…

[kmclemore]

That's a fairly scary photo. Where is that from?

[Terry]

TT Wrote:

Were not sure, what is a “FULL” Shower on these small boats?

Bottom line is full showers are non-existent on these small boats, the head on any of the models is simply too small to accommodate anyone bigger than a little elf, not to mention the complexity and expense of the plumbing set up. Your best bet that others have already done is a cockpit shower set up and all models can do that. The ability to have any kind of worth while shower below is something that only exists in most peoples imagination, a perception if you will. Real showers are what we see on the bigger more luxurious, expensive boats, something the Mac is not. Boasting shower capabilities is just another one of those silly arguments that say more about the person than the boat. There may exist in the world the odd anommoly like exception, but those are few and far between and beyond the average Mac owners inclination. Showers on the X are but a very moot point, not even worth discussing. My two cent worth.